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2 Veteran Cars in Alsace around 1905
The only thing I know about this picture is this: It's a postcard onto which a child once wrote "grandpa" in German and the registration number of the left car (starting with VI B) indicates the photo was taken in Alsace which belonged to Germany until 1918.
At least some of the gentlemen look, as if they have just finished a major trip on what appears to have been a rather chilly day. I have absolutely no idea, which cars can be seen on the picture, but I assume the photo was taken around 1905 or earlier.
Can anybody tell more about the two cars or even the location where this impressive photo was shot?
Words and photo: Michael Schlenger
Publié:
mercredi février 22nd, 2017
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Commentaires
Inconnu
25 Février 2017, 10:26
Ariejan
25 Février 2017, 08:14
Hi Michael,
If you type Gladiator 1903 automobile in Google image search, you'll find directly a Gladiator with reg.nr. DI 54. This car is almost exactly your car. Just notice that several details are identical with the cars on your picture (shape of front axle, steering gear, bonnet shape). Very Gladiator is the light rim along the front end of the bonnet, a unique identification feature. My first thought was De Dietrich indeed because of the location, but there are too many differences, e.g. shape of front axle and shape of front protection plate. The same reasoning for Panhard, by the way.
Cheers,
Ariejan
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If you type Gladiator 1903 automobile in Google image search, you'll find directly a Gladiator with reg.nr. DI 54. This car is almost exactly your car. Just notice that several details are identical with the cars on your picture (shape of front axle, steering gear, bonnet shape). Very Gladiator is the light rim along the front end of the bonnet, a unique identification feature. My first thought was De Dietrich indeed because of the location, but there are too many differences, e.g. shape of front axle and shape of front protection plate. The same reasoning for Panhard, by the way.
Cheers,
Ariejan
Inconnu
25 Février 2017, 07:30
I don't agree Michael Schlenger when he writes "Alsace which belonged to Germany until 1918". and feel he should have written "Alsace which belonged to Germany "from 1870 to 1918". It had been part of the Saint Empire Romain Germanique, heir of Rome, from the 9th century and to France from 1648 to 1870 when the Germans conquered it and lost it in 1918.
This said, I have nothing against the Germans since I visited one and saw an engraving of Karl der Grosse, "my" Charlemagne, "our" Emperor. A pity we did not remain together.
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This said, I have nothing against the Germans since I visited one and saw an engraving of Karl der Grosse, "my" Charlemagne, "our" Emperor. A pity we did not remain together.
Inconnu
24 Février 2017, 06:50
My vote is for Panhard for the cars. Yes, circa 1901-02 and 1904-05.
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Inconnu
24 Février 2017, 02:03
Kevin, some swift research suggests that all the live wombles were in fact male musicians. I think our two motoring wombles would work well in an oom-pah band. They just have that look!
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Inconnu
24 Février 2017, 01:22
AHW, I like the old fella in the back on the right. He may have had a snoot full like my grandpa, and the car is holding him up! Peter, I saw the testaphone also, but if you look close I think it has finger valves and if so it can't have been mounted on the car.....or am I seeing things.....anyway, the photo is proof driving early cars is the most fun you can have on a weekend
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Inconnu
23 Février 2017, 22:38
Hello Ariejan,
Many thanks for the suggestion that these cars could be manufactured by Gladiator.
Could you provide me with a reference picture on the internet? Unfortunately, I haven't got any books covering this marque.
Just one question: What makes you believe that the two cars are identical?
The one on the left clearly features uncovered radiator elements whereas the one on the right already appears to have a proper radiator cowling with hexagonal shape which was typical for Panhard&Levassor cars starting from 1903 (see Bernard Vermeylens superb book Panhard&Levassor - entre tradition et modernité, 2005).
Any further evidence is highly appreciated!
Regards
Michael
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Many thanks for the suggestion that these cars could be manufactured by Gladiator.
Could you provide me with a reference picture on the internet? Unfortunately, I haven't got any books covering this marque.
Just one question: What makes you believe that the two cars are identical?
The one on the left clearly features uncovered radiator elements whereas the one on the right already appears to have a proper radiator cowling with hexagonal shape which was typical for Panhard&Levassor cars starting from 1903 (see Bernard Vermeylens superb book Panhard&Levassor - entre tradition et modernité, 2005).
Any further evidence is highly appreciated!
Regards
Michael
Inconnu
23 Février 2017, 22:25
Hello Marc,
Even if it doesn't refer to the cars you made an interesting point - I like that.
I took a closer look to the original print and noticed that the gentleman in the background is standing with his legs apart.
You cannot see it on the digitized image.
Regards,
Michael
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Even if it doesn't refer to the cars you made an interesting point - I like that.
I took a closer look to the original print and noticed that the gentleman in the background is standing with his legs apart.
You cannot see it on the digitized image.
Regards,
Michael
Inconnu
23 Février 2017, 21:59
Je ne sais pas pour l'auto cachée par le personnage qui a la manivelle entre les jambes, mais pour l'autre peut-être De Dietrich
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Inconnu
23 Février 2017, 20:47
I have no idea about the cars. But I´m wondering about the 2nd guy from the right side. He seems to fly, there are no legs visible. Or does he stand somewhere on the car?? I don´t think so, the car is too far away.....
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Inconnu
23 Février 2017, 15:24
No Panhard, sorry. They are obviously both identical cars, make and year: Gladiator of 1903 or 1904. Although French cars were not uncommon in Germany, in this case it makes even more sense as the license plate indicates that they came from a by the Germans occupied French area: Alsace-Lorraine.
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Inconnu
23 Février 2017, 08:37
I must disagree with Peter Ransom about them being all-boys. He seems to have ignored the two Wombles driving the right hand car!
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Inconnu
23 Février 2017, 07:38
In the meantime, I've done some more research and found out that these two cars probably were made by Panhard-Levassor around 1901 or 1905, respectively.
Can anyone shed some more light on the exact models and maybe even the situation?
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Can anyone shed some more light on the exact models and maybe even the situation?
Inconnu
23 Février 2017, 00:48
The experts will identify the car, but I'm intrigued by the chap in the middle front, hands on both cars, who is holding a Testophone and seems very possessive of the headlamps. The Testophone is is a fairly upmarket multi-tone warning device. Has it fallen off one of the cars or is he perhaps a salesman getting a good publicity shot? it's all-boys picture, too, apart from the faded lady in the background.
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Now I can also see why you said that the two cars are probably of the same type.
Thank you very much for your help.
Michael