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A Delahaye in Indonesia - does the story continue?
We received the following message from Michel San Giorgi:
A few months ago there was a fierce discussion on a Delahaye in Jakarta, which was photographed by the father of Rob Mellaart in the mid-70-ies. It was postulated that it might be the Indian Delahaye (#49150), which now resided in the Mullin collection. Still, it was uncertain if it really was a Figoni & Falashi bodied car.
I have a database with many photos of PreWarCars from the Indochine/Indonesia region. I knew there was a photo of Delahaye in it and I found a few of them.
To the best of my knowledge, it is a 1938 Delahaye 135 roadster by Figoni et Falashi (as mentioned on the photo). The photo was taken during the transport to and at a private garage where the car was secretly parked during the Indonesian independence war. The photo is taken in 1946, which is circumstantial evidence that it is a different car than the Mullin car (which was in India at that time).
I hope this sheds new light on the question. If not, at least they are enjoyable photos.
Could there be a connection between the Delahaye cars - or do we have another mystery to solve?
Publié:
lundi juillet 6th, 2020
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Commentaires
Ad Dijkstra
16 Mai 2024, 15:09
Some years ago I downloaded this picture from the online archives of the Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie. If it wasn't posted earlier it might contribute to this discussion.
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Figoni Freak
12 Juillet 2020, 08:50
great new photos. FYI , The mullin car was modified to match pictures in order to give it credibility. Formerly Peter Agg, it was exported without its chassis from India and mated with a delahaye chassis Agg broke up and used in its reconstruction, and his builds of 4 replicas. When examined prior to Mullins purchase the “” Figoni” style coach work had zero Ash Wood. It was entirely made of teak. The metal work was of a totally different quality that what Figoni did in that period. It was welded together from many pieces, Unlike Figoni’s master work. There was always rumored that 2 replica cars were built in period , in India , when the real cars showed up in the late 1930s With India’s rich. Patching the photos together in period should be a hint of what has happened here. When the “”Mulllin”” Delahaye was bought through car dealer Richard Gorman in Miami it had no Figoni tales and no 3 pin holes in the rear of the metal under the door. When it arrived in the UK it bore two coachbuilders tags : The Old Calcutta Coachwork
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Marc Gosselin
11 Juillet 2020, 21:24
To all of you,
Very happy to get news from Jean-Paul and Henri, to keep the know-how in France ! Now we have to plan a trip in Indonesia to search the car !
Thanks a lot about all you do for us and to share your souvenirs with us,
A bientôt, la vie passe ...
Marc Gosselin
Lire la suite
Very happy to get news from Jean-Paul and Henri, to keep the know-how in France ! Now we have to plan a trip in Indonesia to search the car !
Thanks a lot about all you do for us and to share your souvenirs with us,
A bientôt, la vie passe ...
Marc Gosselin
JEAN-PAUL TISSOT
06 Juillet 2020, 18:29
J'ai oublié : la photo du compartiment moteur est à l'envers
à suivre ...!
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à suivre ...!
The PreWarCar.com Team
06 Juillet 2020, 20:18
Translation:
I forgot: the photo of the engine compartment is upside down
to be continued ...!
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I forgot: the photo of the engine compartment is upside down
to be continued ...!
Herman van Oldeneel
07 Juillet 2020, 11:42
He meant the negative was upside down. This caused that the picture was 'mirrored' . In the picture you see the right hand side of the engine (not the left hand side).
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JEAN-PAUL TISSOT
06 Juillet 2020, 18:23
Bonjour à tous,
Un grand merci à Michel San Giorgi pour nous faire partager ces excellentes photos ! que je ne connaissais pas, donc non publiées dans mon livre DELAHAYE & FIGONI !!
C'est formidable d'avancer dans l'histoire de ces voitures...
Je vais tenter d'identifier ce roadster...parmi les 11 construits ( + 2 coaches ) je suis sûr que notre ami Hans va trouver la solution !!
Lire la suite
Un grand merci à Michel San Giorgi pour nous faire partager ces excellentes photos ! que je ne connaissais pas, donc non publiées dans mon livre DELAHAYE & FIGONI !!
C'est formidable d'avancer dans l'histoire de ces voitures...
Je vais tenter d'identifier ce roadster...parmi les 11 construits ( + 2 coaches ) je suis sûr que notre ami Hans va trouver la solution !!
The PreWarCar.com Team
06 Juillet 2020, 20:19
Translation:
Good morning all,
Many thanks to Michel San Giorgi for sharing these excellent photos with us! That I did not know, therefore not published in my book DELAHAYE & FIGONI !!
It's great to advance in the history of these cars...
I will try to identify this roadster... among the 11 built (+ 2 coaches) I am sure that our friend Hans will find the solution !!
Lire la suite
Good morning all,
Many thanks to Michel San Giorgi for sharing these excellent photos with us! That I did not know, therefore not published in my book DELAHAYE & FIGONI !!
It's great to advance in the history of these cars...
I will try to identify this roadster... among the 11 built (+ 2 coaches) I am sure that our friend Hans will find the solution !!
Leo van Stirum
06 Juillet 2020, 18:12
The shield with the fist and the cyphers 57 seems to me a military thing, maybe of some military unit of the KNIL (Dutch East Indies Army). I tried to find some other examples on the interweb but no succes so far.
A regular numberplate is missing in the car.
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A regular numberplate is missing in the car.
henri lalanne
06 Juillet 2020, 16:55
Si vous regardez le capot de la 49150 de Mullin ,ce n'est pas le même (Indonesie 1 rangée d'ouies , Mullin 2 rangées ),donc vous me direz un capot peut avoir été changé?
Attention il y a 2 photos retournées (la 3 eme et celle du moteur) car si vous regardez les carburateurs ,ils sont du mauvais coté ,alors que la voiture est bien une conduite a gauche
Le moteur n'est pas le même ,celui de Indonesie est un MS et celui de Mullin est un M ,bien sur cela n'est pas une preuve .
La commande d'accélerateur n'est pas la même (aucune raison de la changer )et le pare-feu ,n'est pas identique ,regardez la position du boitier de direction des 2 voitures
Les petits phares ne sont pas a la même hauteur sur les 2 voitures (mais cela peut dépendre de comment la photo a été prise )
Les enjoliveurs chromés au dessus des petits phares sont différents (mais quelqu'un a pû les refaire différement
Ce n'est pas la même voiture ,trop de différences ,qui n'ont pas de raison d'être
encore des détails quyi provent que ce n'est pas la meme voiture
regardez les flammes sur les couvre roues ,elles sont plus longues sue la Indonesie
Il manque un petit detail en bas de l'aile arriere de Mullin
Si vous observez bien la flêche rectiligne sur la porte est plus courte sur la MullinFigoni ne faisait jamis 2 autos identiques ,la preuve ,on dirait la meme voiture (c'est le meme dessin ),mais avec de petites différences ,
Je confirme ce n'est pas la même voiture .
Lire la suite
Attention il y a 2 photos retournées (la 3 eme et celle du moteur) car si vous regardez les carburateurs ,ils sont du mauvais coté ,alors que la voiture est bien une conduite a gauche
Le moteur n'est pas le même ,celui de Indonesie est un MS et celui de Mullin est un M ,bien sur cela n'est pas une preuve .
La commande d'accélerateur n'est pas la même (aucune raison de la changer )et le pare-feu ,n'est pas identique ,regardez la position du boitier de direction des 2 voitures
Les petits phares ne sont pas a la même hauteur sur les 2 voitures (mais cela peut dépendre de comment la photo a été prise )
Les enjoliveurs chromés au dessus des petits phares sont différents (mais quelqu'un a pû les refaire différement
Ce n'est pas la même voiture ,trop de différences ,qui n'ont pas de raison d'être
encore des détails quyi provent que ce n'est pas la meme voiture
regardez les flammes sur les couvre roues ,elles sont plus longues sue la Indonesie
Il manque un petit detail en bas de l'aile arriere de Mullin
Si vous observez bien la flêche rectiligne sur la porte est plus courte sur la MullinFigoni ne faisait jamis 2 autos identiques ,la preuve ,on dirait la meme voiture (c'est le meme dessin ),mais avec de petites différences ,
Je confirme ce n'est pas la même voiture .
The PreWarCar.com Team
06 Juillet 2020, 20:21
Translation:
If you look at the hood of the 49150 from Mullin, it is not the same (Indonesia 1 row of louvers, Mullin 2 rows), so you will tell me a hood may have been changed?
Attention there are 2 photos returned (the 3 rd and that of the engine) because if you look at the carburetors, they are on the wrong side, while the car is indeed a left hand drive
The engine is not the same, that of Indonesia is an MS and that of Mullin is an M, of course this is not proof.
The throttle control is not the same (no reason to change it) and the firewall is not the same, look at the position of the steering box of the 2 cars
The small headlights are not at the same height on the 2 cars (but it can depend on how the photo was taken)
The chrome bezels above the small headlights are different (but someone could redo them differently
It's not the same car, too many differences, which have no reason to be more details that it is not the same car look at the flames on the wheel covers, they are longer on Indonesia
A small detail is missing at the bottom of the rear wing of Mullin
If you observe the straight arrow on the door is shorter on the Mullin Figoni was never 2 identical cars, the proof, it looks like the same car (it's the same drawing), but with small differences,
I confirm it's not the same car.
Lire la suite
If you look at the hood of the 49150 from Mullin, it is not the same (Indonesia 1 row of louvers, Mullin 2 rows), so you will tell me a hood may have been changed?
Attention there are 2 photos returned (the 3 rd and that of the engine) because if you look at the carburetors, they are on the wrong side, while the car is indeed a left hand drive
The engine is not the same, that of Indonesia is an MS and that of Mullin is an M, of course this is not proof.
The throttle control is not the same (no reason to change it) and the firewall is not the same, look at the position of the steering box of the 2 cars
The small headlights are not at the same height on the 2 cars (but it can depend on how the photo was taken)
The chrome bezels above the small headlights are different (but someone could redo them differently
It's not the same car, too many differences, which have no reason to be more details that it is not the same car look at the flames on the wheel covers, they are longer on Indonesia
A small detail is missing at the bottom of the rear wing of Mullin
If you observe the straight arrow on the door is shorter on the Mullin Figoni was never 2 identical cars, the proof, it looks like the same car (it's the same drawing), but with small differences,
I confirm it's not the same car.
Hans Veenenbos
06 Juillet 2020, 09:27
I am stunned at seeing these excellent pictures. Thank you so much Michel for sharing these with us. I need to study them further, but it looks very much like this is the actual FiFa Geo Ham which was for sale at J. van Kooy in the Netherlands in 1939. The number 57 on the car appears to indicate that it had participated in a rally/race, so surely there should be information somewhere in archives of rallies in Indonesia in the immediate postwar period? With this, the discussion starts all over again ....
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Jeroen Booij
06 Juillet 2020, 09:13
That is superb! Thank you so much Michel for sharing these images and information.
I'm sure it will help to unravel the mystery of these cars in the end.
Lire la suite
I'm sure it will help to unravel the mystery of these cars in the end.
Harit Trivedi
06 Juillet 2020, 08:33
Maybe this then is not the Mulin car, but the history of that car also has lots of blank spaces.
However, this is not the first case of a car having Indonesia referred to as its source, though having been smuggled out of India. A bit over 20 years ago a very rare Sunbeam was restored in Calcutta, brought to Mumbai for an event, sold to a Mumbai dealer, and the next we see the car in a British magazine in their lost discovered columns as having been discovered and bought from an Indonesian Maharajah. That story didn't fool anyone and the dealer was involved in some more similar shenanigans.
Regards, Harit
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However, this is not the first case of a car having Indonesia referred to as its source, though having been smuggled out of India. A bit over 20 years ago a very rare Sunbeam was restored in Calcutta, brought to Mumbai for an event, sold to a Mumbai dealer, and the next we see the car in a British magazine in their lost discovered columns as having been discovered and bought from an Indonesian Maharajah. That story didn't fool anyone and the dealer was involved in some more similar shenanigans.
Regards, Harit