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Restoring an unidentified vintage engine (update: Sunbeam? Ballot?)
Derek Magrath recently stumbled over this:
"I saw this engine in the machine shop recently. It is owned by one of the engineers who works there and who is re-building it. He doesn't know anything about it, although he was told it was a marine engine - I'm not so sure. It looks like early vintage and French, to me, but I can't recognise it: can you?"
editor: let's see what the readers say, but it seems quite a challenge to restore an unidentified engine without any knowledge about the specific engine. Of course there are many generic specifications, but still...
Publié:
dimanche juillet 31st, 2016
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Commentaires
Diego Calut
23 Août 2019, 20:00
I worked once on a marine Brooke engine, albeit a rather later model, and I was astonished at the twin bearing crank. Maybe older models had three bearings, like this crank?
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Inconnu
04 Août 2016, 15:54
Duncan - I checked the link out but there was nothing there that specifically linked this engine to a Brooke marine engine. Do you have more details?
I still think it may be a car engine. The chassis bearers are in the right place for a car chassis, and the water inlet and outlet are where they are required for a radiator. A marine engine doesn't need a radiator - just use river water. If it was a marine engine, a n on-board pump would be required. Is there evidence of such a pump?
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I still think it may be a car engine. The chassis bearers are in the right place for a car chassis, and the water inlet and outlet are where they are required for a radiator. A marine engine doesn't need a radiator - just use river water. If it was a marine engine, a n on-board pump would be required. Is there evidence of such a pump?
Inconnu
02 Août 2016, 20:17
It is a Brooke marine engine.
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Brooke_Marine
It was looking for a suitable chassis ten years ago but was refused planning permission by a well known club and nothing happened to it.
I hope that it finds a suitable nautical home.
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http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Brooke_Marine
It was looking for a suitable chassis ten years ago but was refused planning permission by a well known club and nothing happened to it.
I hope that it finds a suitable nautical home.
Vincent Juvenelle
02 Août 2016, 17:13
[quote name="David"]Looks somewhat like a 4cyl version of a Type CO Delage; maybe the Type DO?
Certainly fits with the definate Ballot and Delage AI/DI features.
Any LD or quatrefoil stamps on the castings?[/quote]
this is not a Delage DO (4 holes for the exhaust). neither a Delage AI or DI.
but, looks like a Ballot.
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Certainly fits with the definate Ballot and Delage AI/DI features.
Any LD or quatrefoil stamps on the castings?[/quote]
this is not a Delage DO (4 holes for the exhaust). neither a Delage AI or DI.
but, looks like a Ballot.
Inconnu
02 Août 2016, 11:17
I also wondered if it could be Sunbeam. I only checked the 12/16. For this there were four exhaust ports whereas this has three - the middle one would be siamesed ports for the two inner cylinders. To answer Jean-Marie - I suspect the single port on the other side of the engine is for the carburettor. The lower connection for the water is on the front of the cylinder block. This connects at its lowest point to the water jacket. These engines are so difficult to identify as the design had settled down to being quite generic about 1912, so we may have to cast our net wider.
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Inconnu
02 Août 2016, 10:18
Looks somewhat like a 4cyl version of a Type CO Delage; maybe the Type DO?
Certainly fits with the definate Ballot and Delage AI/DI features.
Any LD or quatrefoil stamps on the castings?
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Certainly fits with the definate Ballot and Delage AI/DI features.
Any LD or quatrefoil stamps on the castings?
Inconnu
02 Août 2016, 03:55
I agree with Steve - not a Sunbeam. It would have to have engine skirts, a much smaller water manifold, multiple inlet ports and drilled pistons.
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Inconnu
01 Août 2016, 19:45
Very similar to a Peugeot engine but not as well made. So I suggest it is french but definitely not Peugeot.
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Inconnu
01 Août 2016, 15:48
Perhaps the most significant question should be whether it is relatively simple on a sidevalve "L head" engine to mount the exhaust and intake(carb) on opposite sides of the engine?
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Inconnu
01 Août 2016, 14:32
It has many similarities to my 1912 Ballot engine. Is the one hole on the right side the water inlet from the bottom of the radiator? 3 holes on the left side, the middle one for the carburettor and the other two for the exhaust? On my Ballot there is just one hole for a carburettor, and exhaust is cast in the block, with one single issue to the rear of the block. Anchor and a number should be cast in. 4F is 2200cc (75mm/120mm; bore/stroke); 4M is 1130cc (60/100); 4J is 2800 cc (80/140); 4G is 1460 cc (65/110) and 4H is 3800 cc (90/150). This information is not found very easily on the internet, at least not everything on one place.
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Inconnu
01 Août 2016, 09:40
I also think Ballot - If it is there will most likely be the Ballot ships anchor cast in somewhere.
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Inconnu
01 Août 2016, 06:39
Initially it looks like an Edwardian Sunbeam Engine with one or two differences perhaps from its marine (or other) application. There may be casting numbers on some components that could help in the identification of what it might be.
On a Sunbeam car engine of this period there is a number on the crankcase bearer but there does not appear to be one on this. On the block both inlet and exhaust ports are different to a Sunbeam. How is the water manifold fastened to the top of the block?
Might it be Peugeot?
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On a Sunbeam car engine of this period there is a number on the crankcase bearer but there does not appear to be one on this. On the block both inlet and exhaust ports are different to a Sunbeam. How is the water manifold fastened to the top of the block?
Might it be Peugeot?