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Une Mercedes ? Vraiment ?

Suite à notre proposition d'aider à identifier des véhicules historiques la semaine dernière, nous avons reçu cette photo étonnante. Une femme dans un épais manteau de fourrure au volant d'une voiture immense et impressionnante. Jon, qui a envoyé la photo, nous informe que la voiture appartenait à son grand-oncle.

Il y a quelques années, il avait essayé de découvrir de quel type de voiture s’agissait-il. Plusieurs personnes ont suggéré une Mercedes. Mais est-ce vraiment cela ? Jon n'est pas totalement convaincu. C’'est pourquoi il note "qu'elle mérite une plus large diffusion afin que les lecteurs de PreWarCar.com puissent investiguer".

Quelqu'un peut-il confirmer qu'il s'agit bien d'une Mercedes ? Ou apportez-nous vos lumières sur la voiture que cette femme conduit, et peut-être nous donner plus d'informations sur celle-ci.

 

Publié:
lundi janvier 31st, 2022
Axel Augspach
12 Février 2022, 14:55
It is a Benz car 1908 without chain drive with a different body.
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Es ist ein Benz Wagen 1908 keine Kettenantrieb mit eine verschiedne Karosserie.
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Jon Dudley
05 Février 2022, 12:03
Thank you all for your most interesting observations. Opinion and evidence does in fact seem to point to the vehicles ( the van as well) being Mercedes. How I would love to know more of the background story of my great uncle's acquisition of these cars. A final idle thought...you don't think that the car was a rather elaborate conversion of the van do you?...no I didn't think so!
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Ariejan Bos
06 Février 2022, 12:30
Neither do I, though I had thoughts about it too. However it seems unlikely to first extend a chassis and shorten it afterwards again. The van obviously has a shorter chassis than the sports tourer. So for the moment my idea is that they were two different cars. To understand more about the reason for these conversions, we would have to dive deeper into mr. Hawke's world of business and leisure.
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Ariejan Bos
01 Février 2022, 11:15
Although only few details are visible pointing at the origin of the car, these seem to be enough to assume that we deal with a Mercedes. One of these details is the side lever configuration, in fact lying on top of the frame. Very characteristic is the bracket, which can just be seen disappearing in the hole of the frame cover, attached to the brake cable for the right rear wheel. At the position of the hole at the lower part of the gate triangle a bar is crossing the frame, where a similar bracket is attached to a brake cable for the left rear wheel. Other Mercedes details are the outward bent rear dumb-irons and the satellite wheel on the steering wheel. The curve of the front dumb-irons is difficult to determine, but could be the shape of an older type of Mercedes. The only other visible technical detail is the large (uncovered) fly-wheel.
Although details of the body (the wheels and the chain case) are typical for Gordon Watney alterations of older racing cars, the body itself doesn't have the G.-W. appearance: it is high, unelegant and rather crudely made. The mudguards are not of the wing-like G.-W. type, but have more an American roadster appearance. The extension at the top of the radiator is more a thing of fashion than of function, and can be observed at different makes.
The above mentioned technical details could point at an earlier, high powered Mercedes (e.g. the 90hp of 1905/1906), but to end up with this car the chassis must have been lengthened substantially.
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Tyrone Hopes
31 Janvier 2022, 18:33
The cowling at the centre top of the radiator was apparently a trademark of a Gordon Watney makeover, circa 1914. The steering wheel design, position, handbrake / gear lever controls and chain guard are the same as those on a Mercedes 6.8 litre in Boddy's book 'Brooklands Giants page 72. Watney seems to have done what many still do today - convert saloons to racing tourers, as they fetch more money on the forecourt!
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Mike Hill
31 Janvier 2022, 17:02
Have found an image online for what seems to be this very car, captioned;- '1912 45 hp Mercedes with aluminium Gordon Watney body, with Count Zbrowski at the wheel'.
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Jeroen Booij
02 Février 2022, 09:39
That is the same, well done!
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Ariejan Bos
02 Février 2022, 14:39
I'd say it is not. Almost everything is different: body, mudguards, dumb-irons. As I mentioned above, the wheel covers and chain case are similar, but definitely not identical.
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Jeroen Booij
02 Février 2022, 17:07
You are absolutely right and I was too quick! But there's more than a resemblance between the two.
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Mike Hill
31 Janvier 2022, 16:51
A Gordon Watney Mercedes conversion/update possibly?

Mike.
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Josef Boers
31 Janvier 2022, 14:28
Der Kühlerform nach ist das wohl kein Mercedes, sondern ein Benz aus der Zeit um 1908 - 1910 (sogen. Prinz- Heinrich-Wagen), die allerdings keinen Kettenantrieb hatten (der "Blitzen-Benz" jedoch hatte Kettenantrieb!?).
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Jill Copper
31 Janvier 2022, 14:24
The car was based in Leicestershire and the owner, Ernie Hawke, was a well known local miller and corn dealer.
My guess is that this is a mid 1920s picture. Here's another of his vehicles which I also posted on PWC some time ago...he liked chain drive!
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Ariejan Bos
02 Février 2022, 14:35
Again obviously an older Mercedes, my guess would be around 1908, and possibly (again) an old racer.
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Jeroen Booij
02 Février 2022, 09:50
Another cracking car, thank you Jill!
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Nick
31 Janvier 2022, 11:07
The cleverly enclosed chain drive and unusual wheel rims say Mercedes to me but the cowl atop the radiator is confusing - although if one imagines the radiator without it, the sculpted angles also say Mercedes.
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Jeroen Booij
31 Janvier 2022, 09:51
What a machine! Recollections of a lost Blitzen Benz story here at PreWarCar many years ago come to mind...
It would be good to know where John's great-uncle was based.
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