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Unidentified prewar chassis (update: Crossley, Delage, Napier, Cadillac?)
Colin Dennis writes: "I purchased this chassis recently at a rural clearing sale and would like to know what sort of vehicle it is from. To me it looked veteran as it is flat topped (no rise over the rear wheels) and the rails are parallel. From the holes on the drivers side rail, it appears to have had an external gear change mechanism. The only remaining mechanicals are the brake cross shaft which would have operated via a continuous cable for the rear wheels only. Judging by the wear on the front spring dumb irons this chassis has spent a long time in its second role as a farm gate. It still carried a length of barbed wire when purchased."
Publié:
dimanche novembre 8th, 2015
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Commentaires
Inconnu
28 Janvier 2016, 21:23
I have now positively identified the chassis as Delage. The 3 spring rear suspension appears to have been offered as an option on several models. To me this chassis appears to be type R or TR so 4 cylinder. If anyone can shed more light on this I would be very grateful.
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Inconnu
17 Décembre 2015, 07:27
I was thinking your frame is a 15hp or 16hp Napier. However, I have had a look at some very good pictures of chassis details on those cars and although close they are not the same as your frame. I now think you have a frame from an Overland. Unfortunately, I have no interest in Overlands
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Inconnu
12 Décembre 2015, 18:53
I am quite sure this frame is for a Napier. It would be for one of their smaller models which had the three spring rear suspension. This the type of car which appeals to me and if you don't have plans for the frame I would be interested in taking it on as a project. The search for the right parts to complete it would be more of a good challenge rather than a bother.
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Inconnu
08 Décembre 2015, 04:33
Delage? I thought a couple of Delage owners mentioned those cars did not have a transverse rear spring which I presume would be part of a triple spring suspension. The front dunbirons on this frame seem to bend down at a greater degree than those of a Delage. Also you give the overall length at 125 inches which is very short unless it is like a Model T with two transverse springs. Looking at the picture from the front and going on the width of the front cross member at just over two foot it looks like the main rails are much longer than ten foot. As another possibility of what it could be is a Colonial model Swift which had similar bent down front dumbirons
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Inconnu
04 Décembre 2015, 21:41
I think David Barker is correct. Delage of about 1910.
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Inconnu
13 Novembre 2015, 01:02
All cross members are riveted but there are a few residual bolts from where the crank handle bearing was secured to the front cross member and where the brake shaft bushes were secured to the chassis rails. Some are tapped into the chassis but all are SAE threads.
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Inconnu
12 Novembre 2015, 02:00
Nuts and bolts? I am pretty sure everything you have there should be held together with rivets. Maybe the nuts and bolts came along at a later date. What you have looks to be in good condition. Have you had a thorough look to find any numbers stamped on it?
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william hearne
11 Novembre 2015, 11:39
[quote name="Colin Dennis"]Length of chassis overall is 125 inches,
width 27.5 inches,depth of chassis rail at thickest is 4 inches. There is no evidence of there being any chassis extensions fitted, but there appears to have been a central spring mounting in the rear cross member and also spring hanger at the location of the brake cross member. To me it looks as if there was a transverse rear spring supporting the rear ends of a pair of semi elliptic springs. All bolts are SAE not whitworth or BSF, suggesting USA origin.[/quote]
So, It looks like Layden Butler is in the correct ball park with 1908 Cadillac.
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width 27.5 inches,depth of chassis rail at thickest is 4 inches. There is no evidence of there being any chassis extensions fitted, but there appears to have been a central spring mounting in the rear cross member and also spring hanger at the location of the brake cross member. To me it looks as if there was a transverse rear spring supporting the rear ends of a pair of semi elliptic springs. All bolts are SAE not whitworth or BSF, suggesting USA origin.[/quote]
So, It looks like Layden Butler is in the correct ball park with 1908 Cadillac.
Inconnu
11 Novembre 2015, 01:06
Length of chassis overall is 125 inches,
width 27.5 inches,depth of chassis rail at thickest is 4 inches. There is no evidence of there being any chassis extensions fitted, but there appears to have been a central spring mounting in the rear cross member and also spring hanger at the location of the brake cross member. To me it looks as if there was a transverse rear spring supporting the rear ends of a pair of semi elliptic springs. All bolts are SAE not whitworth or BSF, suggesting USA origin.
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width 27.5 inches,depth of chassis rail at thickest is 4 inches. There is no evidence of there being any chassis extensions fitted, but there appears to have been a central spring mounting in the rear cross member and also spring hanger at the location of the brake cross member. To me it looks as if there was a transverse rear spring supporting the rear ends of a pair of semi elliptic springs. All bolts are SAE not whitworth or BSF, suggesting USA origin.
Inconnu
09 Novembre 2015, 23:56
The sale was in northern Victoria, Australia
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Inconnu
09 Novembre 2015, 21:28
May I suggest 22 hp Crossley
Same front crossmember,
parallel Chassis rails,
Chain Drive.
Some did not have starting handle through the front crossmember.
http://www.svvs.org/genpics7/1907_Crossley_22HP_and_40HP.jpg
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Same front crossmember,
parallel Chassis rails,
Chain Drive.
Some did not have starting handle through the front crossmember.
http://www.svvs.org/genpics7/1907_Crossley_22HP_and_40HP.jpg
Inconnu
09 Novembre 2015, 17:07
With the way those front dumb irons extend downward suggests a colonial model built for higher ground clearance.
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David Barker
09 Novembre 2015, 16:27
[quote name="David barker"]Delage? 1910-13 RT with the transverse rear spring. All the front looks very like my R Type. But no gearbox mountings, so probably not, I think I will withdraw my suggestion![/quote]
Are there signs of the very rear end of the chassis having been sawn off? If so there could have been rear dumb irons, and then it really could be Delage.
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Are there signs of the very rear end of the chassis having been sawn off? If so there could have been rear dumb irons, and then it really could be Delage.
Mike Tebbett
09 Novembre 2015, 15:05
[quote name="David barker"]Delage? 1910-13 RT with the transverse rear spring. All the front looks very like my R Type. But no gearbox mountings, so probably not, I think I will withdraw my suggestion![/quote]
It could be Delage Type R…. with the sub-frames for engine and gearbox removed. At the extreme rear is there any sign of the distinctive 'cow horn' casting that carried the rear of the rear spring having been sawn off????
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It could be Delage Type R…. with the sub-frames for engine and gearbox removed. At the extreme rear is there any sign of the distinctive 'cow horn' casting that carried the rear of the rear spring having been sawn off????
Inconnu
09 Novembre 2015, 10:27
Surprisingly little evidence as to how the rear springs were mounted. Cantilever or quarter elliptic perhaps ? Tapered back end of rails too light for small commercial vehicle use I would have thought. Somebody connected with the farm might have the answer ? Might also know where other parts are ( buried for example-it has happened ). What country are we dealing with ? Judging by the lack of rust after farm gate use, I would guess Australia.
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Inconnu
09 Novembre 2015, 09:26
Delage? 1910-13 RT with the transverse rear spring. All the front looks very like my R Type. But no gearbox mountings, so probably not, I think I will withdraw my suggestion!
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Inconnu
09 Novembre 2015, 09:12
One final (maybe!) question- where was the sale? It might help
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Inconnu
09 Novembre 2015, 08:17
Some dimensions would be helpful. Overall length, width, estimated wheelbase and the sectional size of the main rails
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Inconnu
09 Novembre 2015, 00:10
That front cross member looks like Napier to me, but you would have to take some measurements and see what they match up to. Someone will know.
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