The alloy Model T Mystery (upd. no older than 1914..?)

Ivan,

You say:

"Ford Model T was one of the most popular car in Russian Empire before and after Revolution."

Wrong. Even your own numbers for Ford cars registered in St-Petersburg from 1910 to 1913 suggest very few were sold:

1910: 26 Fords out of 1056 cars =

Joris,

I concentrated on the "factory numbers 117525 ans 108013" and if these are engine numbers (the only serial numbers Model T's carried), then the info I sent earlier is correct.

See: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm

That being said, Mr. Hentges is correct in his comments regarding the fender and sidelight, now that I look more closely at the pictured vehicle.

Sorry William but your facts are wrong.

#108013 = April 1912

#117525 = May 1912

***note: The actual dates of manufacture of engines before 1913 have yet to be discovered. The numbers shown are based on the dates of the sale of the engine/automobile. From the available data it appears that engines were installed in cars, or sold as engines only, in numerical order until summer of 1912. see:

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm

You say:

"The oil headlamps and carriage mounted side lamps along with the cherry wood firewall/ cowl are all from the 1914 model year."

In 1913 and 1914 Model T carbide headlamps (not oil as you say) and kerosene side lamps were made mostly of steel with some brass. Today we call these "black and brass". The car in the photo has full brass headlights, full brass sidelights and a brass windsreen frame which clearly makes it pre-1913. Henry Ford changed to "black and brass" to save money.

As I and others have mentioned the body design and RHD point to thios car being British made.

I was also surprised that this Ford was made in Britain. In the description it was mentioned that the material of the body is aluminium so I marked it.

The car was photographed near dealership in Saint-Petersburg on Italianskaya street, 35. It`s not far from Nevsky the main avenue of Imperial capital. This building exist nowadays.

Ford Model T was one of the most popular car in Russian Empire before and after Revolition. Recently I wrote the article about Ford Model T history in Russia and I studied the statistics of cars in St-Petersburg, Moscow, Odessa and the Crimea.

For example the quantity of Ford cars registered in St-Petersburg from 1910 to 1913.

Year / All cars / Ford cars

1910 / 1056 cars / 26
1911 / 1479 cars / 48
1912 / 1774 cars / 63
1913 / 2363 cars / 73*

*only in August and plus about 20 cars were registered before August 1913 and July 1914.

In 1913 Ford was on the six place on popularity after Benz, Opel, Delaunay-Belleville, Mercedes and Renault. So you can see the good increase of the quantity. For example such famous marks like Brasier, Panhard-Levassor or Clement-Bayard decreased from 1911 to 1913.

In Moscow Ford was on the 18-th place in 1914 with 22 cars but in 1912 there were only 3 Fords in the city.

In Odessa Ford was on the 4-th place after Opel, Benz and Berliet in 1913.

In the Crimea Ford was very widespread! Sometimes in the uyezds (Russian districts) the half of the cars was Ford.

Also we need note that only about 40% of cars were really registered! So the quantity of Ford could be more.

The main problem for Ford-T in Russia was the price. In USA Model T costed about 700 roubles but in Russia cars solded from 2275 roubles! Of course the Russian workers couldn`t buy this car. The main advantage was lost…

But after Revolution Ford Model T became more popular than before. Soviet Power falled in love with Henry Ford who was really self-made-man from the lower classes. And in the 1932 the Ford Model A and AA was started to produce in USSR as GAZ-A and AA.

P.S. This photo in hi-res you can download here:
http://narod.ru/disk/63208986001.57f3ce27a1b39d99e9491510974f44aa/Ford.jpg.html

Additionally, The oil headlamps and carriage mounted side lamps along with the cherry wood firewall/ cowl are all from the 1914 model year.
Who did what, when, to this auto I have no idea, but these are the facts.

Many readers of PreWarCar.com know more than I regarding the Ford Model T. Since no one has mentioned the obvious here it is. The engine serial numbers date the automobile to having been produced early in 1916. The flat front fender, along with the round rear fender, is unique to 1915-1916 models.
The body, given the four strange square doors is obviously of custom fabrication. The seating upholstery is custom as well.
All alse is 1915-1916 Ford.
William

What a nice surprise! I've known about this car for a while but did not have a clear photo of it.

Yes, this car is a 1912 made in Britain Ford Model T...RHD, rear fenders and style of front windscreen supports are the clues. Like all brass era Ts the hood (or bonnet) was aluminium.

The door behind the car is the entrance to the Ford dealership in St. Petersburg. In the photo I have, this car and a Gramm truck (the dealer also sold Gramm as well as Fords) are shown in front of the dealership which has a large “Ford Automobile” sign in Russian. Sitting in this Model T in my photo is the owner of the Ford dealership a Mr. Friede, who also owns the Moscow dealership which is managed by his son.

In 1912 Mr. Friede did enter two USA made Model Ts in a trial organised by the Russian War Department. One of these two cars I believe was a delivery van which carried fuel for all the cars in the trial. According to Mr.Friede, the Model T was the only vehicle to finish the trial without penalty points thus defeating the like of Mercedes, Benz and Napier. Although much less powerful than these luxury brands the Model T was lighter thus better suited the difficult conditions of the trial. The two engine numbers you mention may well be for these trial cars rather than the British Ford in the photo. Photos do exist of this trial showing the Czar walking past a line-up of cars towards Mr. Friede who is standing next to a USA 1912 touring.

The interesting thing about this photo is the question: what is a British made T doing in Imperial Russia? As Thilo mentions in his comments, Ford USA directly supplied Imperial Russia sending cars there from Detroit in large wooden crates. In his comments Thilo says “Ford was the best selling brand in Russia before the Revolution”. According to Mr. Friede, who often wrote reports for the Ford Times magazine, this is correct...but is it? Perhaps the opposite is true and that’s why this car is in St. Petersburg...I’ve discussed this on my website, see:

http://melbournetomoscow.com/engcar.html

Well, 1912 is the only model year where factory serial number records are not available. The data we have has evidently been compiled from published Ford numbers. Using that data (and referencing the late Bruce McCalley's "Model T Ford " bible, 108013 was produced in April 1912 and 117525 in May 1912.

1912 was also a year of numerous body changes, mostly discernible by the different shapes of the front doors. That being said, none of the known factory bodies I can find illustrated show the square corners as seen on the pictured car. Which leads me to believe this body was made by a non-factory coachbuilder likely outside of the US. In which case, the aluminum construction is not surprising. As far as I can determine, the aluminum-paneled bodies supplied to Ford by the Pontiac company ended in 1909.

To my knowledge Russia was supplied with US-build Fords until local production started. Ford dealerships existed in Moscow, St.Petersburg and Odessa, as well as in Warsaw, Riga and Helsinki (all belonging to Russia at that time).
Ford was the best selling brand in Russia before the Revolution and promoted by the Tsar after Model-Ts had won several long-distance trials in Russia.

Is there a chance of the English term "alloy" being translated wrongly? Remember Model-Ts were the first cars to use a Vanadium alloy frame.

I think this Ford Model T is manufactured in the UK.
In Sweden there is a preserved car with a similar appearance. It is RHD and built right in Britain in 1912.The car is owned approximately 60 years of Bo Byman, a member of the Brass & Nickel car group in Sweden
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1912_Ford_Model_T_Touring.jpg?uselang=sv

Before 1915 the "Hoods" of Model "T"s were made in Aluminium, and only started to change in that model year 15/16.
Not sure about the rest of the body but the people on this site would sure like to hear from Ivan
http://modelt.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.pl?tpc=2&post=7563
stuart